Another December Chain thread (for muppets) ... Yawn ...

[Zimmerframe]

After 4 months of abuse and just over 900k's the Kenevo (1.3, a proper one, not one of those new "pretty" ones ) has started to feel clunky on the transmission, sounding a bit like the chain that pulls you up an old roller-coaster ..

Like, many I've meticulously measured the chain regularly using the "eye" method .... yup, looks the same length.

To be honest, I've never been sure which chain measuring tool to buy. They all appear flawed and to get a good grasp of what's going on, you'd need to take several measurements. Though I think I've finally sussed that one.

The chain of choice for winter abuse :

SRAM NX PC-1110

SRAM NX PC-1110 11 Speed Powerchain | Chain Reaction Cycles

At £9, it's strong, long lasting and cheap enough that you can buy several for the price of some of the more expensive offerings and just change more frequently, if you need to. Suggested by @Kiwi in Wales .. so a huge huge thanks for that.

I also worked out, it's the most accurate and cheapest chain measuring tool. Just take off your existing chain every now and again for a good clean, lets face, it actually only takes 2 minutes. Hold your chain up to your "new" measuring chain and you can see how much it's stretched ! Your "measuring chain", unlike other chain measuring tools, has a built in replacement chain which you can use to replace your stretched chain when it's time.

Today's muppet lessons learned... Other than the cheapest, best, most accurate and with a free replacement chain - chain measuring tool.

I couldn't undo the quicklink, no matter what I tried. So reverted to a pair of pliers squeezing one outer link end at an angle with the opposite outer link end. Slid apart in seconds. (I know you can use your shoelace, but that presumes that a: you can do shoelaces b: you weren't wearing rigger boots. )

I then couldn't get the new link to close up ?!?! brake on, weight the pedal etc etc .. nothing .. doh ... So I reverted to what seems to be one of my most used bike tools .. the circlip pliers ... click .. perfect .. Just wondering now if I could have used the pliers on opposite link corners in the same way I took it off ???

 

[Mcharza]

Chain reaction....

 

[slippery pete]

I then couldn't get the new link to close up ?!?!

For setting quicklinks, I rotate cranks to place the link in the "under tension" upper run of chain from chainring to cassette, set the crank at 90 degrees and give the pedal a quick bang with my fist (slap with open palm works just as well) while holding the rim still with the other hand. None of the loads has ever seemed too extreme and it just kinda works. Not saying you didn't encounter a reluctant link.

I like the "chain measuring device" hint.

 

[steve_sordy]

For setting quicklinks, I rotate cranks to place the link in the "under tension" upper run of chain from chainring to cassette, set the crank at 90 degrees and give the pedal a quick bang with my fist ..........

If I did that I'd end up with a pattern of puncture wounds that look remarkably close to the pin pattern on my DMR Vaults.

 

[Zimmerframe]

For setting quicklinks, I rotate cranks to place the link in the "under tension" upper run of chain from chainring to cassette, set the crank at 90 degrees and give the pedal a quick bang with my fist (slap with open palm works just as well) while holding the rim still with the other hand. None of the loads has ever seemed too extreme and it just kinda works.

LOL ... I just realised why it didn't work based on your description ... What a total muppet, I joined the chain on the "lower run" and then decided I didn't want to run it round onto the top as the link would be too short and might jam somewhere... sadly, at that point, my brain was kidnapped by aliens, so I carried on regardless, and tried doing it with it on the lower run .. ... Brilliant .. welcome dementia ..

 

[steve_sordy]

I like the idea of comparing an old chain with a new chain, much cheaper than buying a steel tape measure!
Can you measure up for curtains with it too?

 

[GrahamPaul]

I also worked out, it's the most accurate and cheapest chain measuring tool. Just take off your existing chain every now and again for a good clean, lets face, it actually only takes 2 minutes. Hold your chain up to your "new" measuring chain and you can see how much it's stretched !

So... how exactly do you "see" 0.5% stretch?

 

[GrahamPaul]

give the pedal a quick bang with my fist (slap with open palm works just as well) while holding the rim still with the other hand.

That's a bit "exciting" for those of us who ride on flats with extra aggressive pins...

 

[Zimmerframe]

So... how exactly do you "see" 0.5% stretch?

With a 114 link chain, that would be just over half a link. I was upto 3/4 of a link when I compared them.

100 links stretched 1% would be 1 link. 0.5% would be half a link. So you'd have to guess a bit if you had a 15 or 20% longer chain, but surely it couldn't be any less accurate than using a device which only measures over a few links.

 

[Gary]

Quick link pliers. such as :

Are for both opening quick links AND closing them.

Much cheapness?
Birzman Chain Link Removing Pliers | Chain Reaction Cycles
suits you Sir

 

[GrahamPaul]

With a 114 link chain, that would be just under half a link. I was upto 3/4 of a link when I compared them.

My arithmetic says that would be "just over" half a link. But I now see you method. I rather like it.

(Can't for the life of me see how to get my cheap vernier calipers into the chain, and measuring by guessing the centrelines of the pins is not sensible over such a short baseline. My chain measuring tool does fit the SRAM 12 speed chain, though, which was a surprise after what I'd read).

 

[Zimmerframe]

Quick link pliers. such as :

Are for both opening quick links AND closing them.

Much cheapness?
Birzman Chain Link Removing Pliers | Chain Reaction Cycles
suits you Sir

That can't be right, they're only 4.99 ? That link must goto a special chain reaction Scottish only site ??

 

[Gary]

Happy fucking christmas

 

[Zimmerframe]

My arithmetic says that would be "just over" half a link. But I now see you method. I rather like it.

(Can't for the life of me see how to get my cheap vernier calipers into the chain, and measuring by guessing the centrelines of the pins is not sensible over such a short baseline. My chain measuring tool does fit the SRAM 12 speed chain, though, which was a surprise after what I'd read).

Yup, the dementia was on a roll, I edited it when I re read it... You were just too darn fast ??

 

[slippery pete]

If I did that I'd end up with a pattern of puncture wounds that look remarkably close to the pin pattern on my DMR Vaults.

Ha ha ha. -Aah! Your skin milord. I’ll wager it ne’er
felt the lash of a cat, been rubbed with salt, and then flayed off by a pirate chief to make fine stockings for his best cabin boy.

 

[steve_sordy]

Ha ha ha. -Aah! Your skin milord. I’ll wager it ne’er
felt the lash of a cat, been rubbed with salt, and then flayed off by a pirate chief to make fine stockings for his best cabin boy.

Right now, and for most of my working life, definitely yes!

But 48 years ago, when I was an apprentice mechanical engineer, I spent six months in iron and steel foundries of various kinds, pattern and moulding shops of various kinds, and a metallurgy lab for the last few weeks. I knew two men that were killed while I was there! But apart from being badly bruised, burned and nearly blinded, I personally had a fantastic time. I still have my journals from those days. I started my six months wearing leather gloves to avoid blisters, but I ended my six months with hands that were so rough that if I put my hand on my girlfriend's leg, I snagged her tights when I removed it. My dad was a plumber and yet my hands were rougher than his; "you could sand wood with them!" was what he said.
Happy days, but I'm sure that those places don't exist any more, not in safety terms anyway.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

I also worked out, it's the most accurate and cheapest chain measuring tool. Just take off your existing chain every now and again for a good clean, lets face, it actually only takes 2 minutes. Hold your chain up to your "new" measuring chain and you can see how much it's stretched ! Your "measuring chain", unlike other chain measuring tools, has a built in replacement chain which you can use to replace your stretched chain when it's time.

Hammer a small nail on a wall and hang the end of a new chain. Make a pencil mark on the wall that's in-line with any pin you choose near the bottom. That way you can measure your chain stretch just in case you haven't got a new replacement on hand. The beauty about this method, is that it's portable - and you can take this nail with you anywhere you go. Just hammer the nail back up somewhere and... no wait...

I couldn't undo the quicklink, no matter what I tried. So reverted to a pair of pliers squeezing one outer link end at an angle with the opposite outer link end. Slid apart in seconds. (I know you can use your shoelace, but that presumes that a: you can do shoelaces b: you weren't wearing rigger boots. )

I was gonna buy a proper removal tool (on-line) but I needed one right then and there and couldn't wait. I've got cheap multi-purpose circlip pliers and lost a few over the years and ended up with a handful of spare prongs from previous sets, so I decided to grind one up into shape. Just a temporary one-off until I can buy a proper one. The thing is, it works so well that I can't be bothered buying a proper one. And oh, I can take the prongs off the handle, making it small enough to fit into my mini tool bag for the trail. There's enough exposed metal for me to squeeze them with my fingers... or if it's too hard I could wrap the prongs with my shoelace and pull... oh, hang on...

LOL ... I just realised why it didn't work based on your description ... What a total muppet, I joined the chain on the "lower run" and then decided I didn't want to run it round onto the top as the link would be too short and might jam somewhere... sadly, at that point, my brain was kidnapped by aliens, so I carried on regardless, and tried doing it with it on the lower run .. ... Brilliant .. welcome dementia ..

It would've worked if you flipped the bike upside down. Then the link would be on top... silly...

 

[Mikerb]

Don't want to burst your bubble but your measuring method assumes all new chains measure the same ( given the same number of links). My experience is they do not! As far as chain maintenance is concerned and despite the various "tests" done to identify the longest living chain, I have found very little if any difference in wear between relatively cheap solid chains, hollow chains, and e bike specific chains ( only the latter 2 on an E bike so far). In fact if anything the hollow link chain was better both in terms of gear change and wear than the others.......and I have never experienced any rust problem with standard chains so would not pay the extra for rust protection. In terms of measure I use a park tools chain checker on the basis of testing several points on the chain at the top of the chain whilst under some pedal pressure and pay attention only to what measure it gave when new and then subsequently by comparison.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Don't want to burst your bubble but your measuring method assumes all new chains measure the same...

Awe don't burst Zimmer's bubble... I like it.
It's useful and handy enough as a quick eye-ball indicator to check the condition of the chain before cleaning it.

We know that bicycle chains have a 1/2 inch pitch between pin centres as a standard. I don't expect that manufacturing tolerances would differ too far away from that pitch standard if they did vary. The starting point is not so critical as far as the cog teeth are concerned. It's the max allowable stretch point that really matters.

One other way to measure chain stretch precisely is to mount a yard stick vertically onto a wall. It could actually be the same spot where it hangs when not being used. Then we'll need that portable nail again to hang the chain from and beside it. Some metal meter-long rulers (aluminium or stainless) are still available with imperial inches on the other edge. Hang the chain right next to the imperial side (line-up any pin near the nail - to zero) and it's real easy to see if the chain pins line-up with the lines along the imperial scale. The maximum deviation limit would have to be measured at the 40 inch mark (80 links) because that all there is in a meter stick. And a 0.5% stretch factor - would bring that to 40.2 inches... which is 7/32" or about 5mm longer. Easy enough to eye-ball if the closest roller pin to the 40 inch mark is 5mm longer (or past that).

The chain measurement tools are super handy because we can check chain stretch without removing the chain from the bike. But these are convenient measuring aids only, just as susceptible to error because they are fairly short.

The longer the measurement the more accurate the assessment. At longer lengths, eye-balling is actually pretty legit.

 

[outerlimits]

I really don’t know why you don’t just remove a link when your chain stretches @Zimmerframe.
You could even spray it with degreaser and stomp around on it in the floor of the shower to give it a clean before refitting. If you can’t undo or refit a quick link with your bare hands... Do you even lift ?‍

 

[Mikerb]

Err....because it is the distance between links that is important to match the shape of the sprockets.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

I really don’t know why you don’t just remove a link when your chain stretches...

What a great idea!
I would've tried that myself @outerlimits, but I've never been able to tell for sure if my chain has stretched far enough. I even splurged out and bought a proper chain measuring thingamajig - but I'm pretty sure the tool I got is flawed...

I keep getting the same measurement no matter how worn the chain has become!

Best way to explain it is to show you a photo. See...
Maybe needs fresh batteries.

.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I really don’t know why you don’t just remove a link when your chain stretches @Zimmerframe.

Genius ! Not only that, but after a few years, you should have enough "removed" links to make a whole spare chain up - for free !

Would you advise doing this as part of the @outerlimits weight loss smooth shift package deal ? You know, where you grind off every second tooth on the cassette and chain ring ?

Or in triplicate with the @outerlimits "More supple ride for free" technique, where you remove one in three spokes ?

This needs sticking together in a special @outerlimits "Less is More" thread.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Genius ! Not only that, but after a few years, you should have enough "removed" links to make a whole spare chain up - for free !

The key and operative word here is that you must "remove" the excess links. Listen carefully and consider the consequences Outerlimits this is serious stuff. If you don't take Zimmerframe's advice, your chain - over the years - would've grown and stretched to such an extent that the condition would be irreversible.

Emergency services will have to be called-in to demolish one of your garage walls in order to get you and your bike out.

 

[outerlimits]

where you grind off every second tooth on the cassette and chain ring

I don’t recommend grinding off every second tooth of the cassette and chain ring. That would just be plain silly when they make streached oval chain rings especially for use with stretched chains. Besides, you @Zimmerframe, should not be allowed to operate power tools.
I take all my removed spare chain links and make them into designer jewellery and flog them at exorbitant prices down the local markets. Cashed up tree hugging hippies love recycled goods and weird shit like that and will just about crawl over and beat the snot out of each other throwing cash just to own one off pieces of chain,. Er um, I mean “designer jewellery”

 

[Zimmerframe]

I don’t recommend grinding off every second tooth of the cassette and chain ring. That would just be plain silly when they make streached oval chain rings especially for use with stretched chains. Besides, you @Zimmerframe, should not be allowed to operate power tools.
I take all my removed spare chain links and make them into designer jewellery and flog them at exorbitant prices down the local markets. Cashed up tree hugging hippies love recycled goods and weird shit like that and will just about crawl over and beat the snot out of each other throwing cash just to own one off piece of chain,. Er um, I mean “designer jewellery”

You know you'd make a lot more money if you sold pieces as "cycling" Jewellery ? As depicted by international law, anything cycling related must have at least one extra "0" added to the price - as instigated by the 1903 "Them Damned Automobiles will put us out of business - its not fair law".

Quick links re-sold as ear rings are instantly €20. Its also a great way to carry quick links
and saves all the hassle of trying to bribe a trailside hippy with some "Genuine home made Ear Wax" in exchange for theirs.

I did wonder if you could carry one in a prince albert piercing, but that doesn't look practical ..

WARNING : do not search for prince albert piercing and look at the wikipedia page .. DO NOT .. NOT NOT NOT EVER .. unless you need to induce vomiting in an emergency.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

If I did that I'd end up with a pattern of puncture wounds that look remarkably close to the pin pattern on my DMR Vaults.

Just like my shins...

 

[outerlimits]

You know you'd make a lot more money if you sold pieces as "cycling" Jewellery ? As depicted by international law, anything cycling related must have at least one extra "0" added to the price - as instigated by the 1903 "Them Damned Automobiles will put us out of business - its not fair law".

Quick links re-sold as ear rings are instantly €20. Its also a great way to carry quick links
and saves all the hassle of trying to bribe a trailside hippy with some "Genuine home made Ear Wax" in exchange for theirs.

I did wonder if you could carry one in a prince albert piercing, but that doesn't look practical ..

WARNING : do not search for prince albert piercing and look at the wikipedia page .. DO NOT .. NOT NOT NOT EVER .. unless you need to induce vomiting in an emergency.

Selling pieces as “Cycling jewellery” is problematic as it is a dead market. Sure you can add as many zeros as you like behind the 9, however they will not sell as the target market has already spent all their coin on their bike.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Selling pieces as “Cycling jewellery” is problematic as it is a dead market. Sure you can add as many zeros as you like behind the 9, however they will not sell as the target market has already spent all their coin on their bike.

Unless you make the jewellery out of carbon fibre. Some people will eat 2-minute noodles for the rest of their lives just to have carbon...

Just make sure you don’t paint over it.

 

[outerlimits]

Unless you make the jewellery out of carbon fibre. Some people will eat 2-minute noodles for the rest of their lives just to have carbon...

Just make sure you don’t paint over it.

A carbon fibre chain ?
I’ll start hydro dipping a carbon fibre pattern onto some old chains now.

I might even make just enough money to buy a S-Works Levo ?