36t chainring recommendation

[Gary]

KMC used to manufacture most of shimano's chains (not sure if still the case)
I wouldn't run either TBH.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Good update, I commute 50 miles a week and already think it’s often a bit of a low geared setup as it is so your confirmation has saved me some money. Thanks.

Ref the chain, I seem to stretch mine to .75 every 500 mile And change it at that point. The cheapest place appears to ALWAYS be Merlin when I check.

KMC E10 Silver E-Bike Chain - 10 Speed | Merlin Cycles

@Evolution Stu Finally got my HG500 cassette installed - plus my new Shimano CN-E6090-10 chain. Really pleased with it!

Pic below shows my chain cut to 122 links length. I know from previous actual measurements that I could get away with 120 links, but I went against it for two reasons. 1) Saving the weight of two links [5 grams] is insignificant and, 2) I spend most of the time on the 3rd to 5th cog as in the pic, and a shorter chain would only drop the derailleur cage lower making it more vulnerable to snagging something.

Still in topic - regarding 36T aluminium aftermarket chainrings:
I noticed early on (every time I remove the KMC e10) that there was a bit of chain suck against the MOTSUV chainrings - not much, but enough for me to notice. Didn't recall sensing this with the original Praxis steel chainring with the KMC chain.
But when I installed the new Shimano chain, it seemed free-ier wrapped around the 36T MOTSUV. I got curious if this was just all in my head, so I did some measurements. Here's what I found:

MOTSUV narrow-wide teeth = 3.52mm thick wide tooth / 2.00mm thick narrow tooth
(I'd be interested to know what the RACEFACE teeth thicknesses are)

KMC e10 Chain
Wide plates inside gap = 4.22mm
Narrow plates inside gap = 2.16mm

SHIMANO CN-E6090-10 Chain
Wide plates inside gap = 4.27mm
Narrow plates inside gap = 2.27mm

I did sense that pedalling was easier with the Shimano chain but I'll just discount and ignore that as psychological bias. What I can't deny is that it shifts much nicer. Could be because it's a brand new HG500 cassette and brand new chain. The KMC chain with the 11-36T cassette makes a 'clunk' sound most of the time I shift. The Shimano chain with the 11-42T cassette would sometimes shift completely silent - to a point where I would doubt if it even shifted (it does). If it makes a sound, it's more like a 'ping' instead of a 'clunk.' To be fair there is a component to the clunk sound that is probably the Yamaha BB axle ratchet taking up the sudden chain slack when I shift to a smaller cog.

I'm loving the HG500 11-42T cassette mate! Not so much because of the large 42T cog - but more because the cog sizes from the 5th cog upwards, step-up to larger sized cogs. I'm ignoring the largest aluminium cog (I won't be needing that much) but I'm treating it like a 9-speed with a much nicer (quicker) ratio progression. I now find myself shifting one or two clicks, instead of three.

.

 

[Gary]

I noticed early on (every time I remove the KMC e10) that there was a bit of chain suck against the MOTSUV chainrings - not much, but enough for me to notice.

what do you mean by "not much" chain suck? and how/when/where were you noticing it?
The only time I've ever encountered actual chainsuck with my emtb is when the rear mech's clutch has been left switched OFF.
I'd advise never running the clutch in the OFF position on an E bike. As most emtb motors have overrun chainsuck on an ebike will often mean that even when the rider notices it and stops pedalling the chainring continues to be turned by the motor meaning the chain is sucked right up into/past the chainstay until the chain becomes jammed with a high possibility of damaging the chain, chainring, crank, frame or motor casing.
Running your chain 2 links too long is actually going to increase the chance of chainsuck as the derailleurs main pivot spring actually becomes weaker the further back the cage sits.
I'd remove those two extra links and go with as short a chain as your gearing and rear suspension will allow and just try to pay more attention to where you're aiming your rear mech's cage while riding.

All 104 BCD Narrow wide rings are compatible with 9, 10 and 11 speed gearing (and chains obvs) so I wouldn't worry too much about the differences you've found between different internal chain link diameters. the Motsuv ring's teeth are within an acceptible tolerance to work with 9, 10 and 11 speed chains.

What I can't deny is that it shifts much nicer. Could be because it's a brand new HG500 cassette and brand new chain.

HAPPY COLUMBO DAY

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

^ Yes I've read somewhere that 9, 10, 11 speed chains all have the same inside gaps, and it's the plate thickness and more so reducing or eliminating the pin protrusion is what makes them different (not sure about the 12 speed though). So chainrings, like you said, will work perfectly for all of these chains.

The chain suck I noticed with the KMC chain on the MOTSUV chainring was when I had taken the Quick-link off and I was just pulling the chain away from the derailleur by turning the cranks by hand. I noticed that the KMC dropping vertically down to the floor was being drawn slightly by the MOTSUV. Doesn't do it with the Shimano.

I'm pretty sure the difference between the KMC and Shimano chains are well within the tolerance standards - but it was noticeable that the Shimano chain sat more loosely on the MOTSUV.

The KMC chain always shifted clunky from day one when I bought the Trance E+ new, which is why I wanted to try a Shimano chain. Gosh, you must be getting old too Gary - if you also know who Columbo is!

I don't know about you, but I get the feeling from newer posts that the average eBiker age in this here forum is getting younger each day... they'd probably miss our joke entirely.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Clean your drivetrain regularly, lube it properly and don't ever shift under load.

Good advice in general and i always appreciate peoples time when they offer advice, but you would perhaps have been better asking me what kind of use its put to (and where) in order for it to wear so quickly rather than telling me how long yours lasts and making the assumption that a guy who builds race engines for a living (And has done for 25 years) didnt think to oil and maintain a bicycle chain. LOL

Oh.. And Ebike specific chains are an absolute load of bollocks made up by the manufacturer to fleece you.
Just buy a decent quantity regular chain and set fire to a bunch of fivers fir the same effect.

A bunch of fivers? The chains are only £25 mate.
Hardly expensive and not something I see any reason to skimp on when I can use the one the manufacturer recomended.

 

[Evolution Stu]

@Evolution Stu Finally got my HG500 cassette installed - plus my new Shimano CN-E6090-10 chain. Really pleased with it!

Nice, well done mate, Im glad you like it.
Interesting to read the chain and ring size differences, had not expected that. I assumed they were all the same "Standard". Every days a school day! Will measure mine up later.

I decided to upgrade the deraillier to XT and the shifters to Saint this week. Turned into a drama as usual because the bloody XT fouls the 1st gear. I am about to attack it with a dremell and a large cup of coffee. LOL

The shifter however is awesome. Well pleased with that.

 

[Gary]

but you would probably have been better asking me what kind of use its put to (and where) in order for it to wear so quickly

Not really. you don't know the use or where I am riding either. But do tell?

Good advice in general and i always appreciate peoples time when they offer advice

Thanks.

making the assumption that a guy who builds race engines for a living (And has done for 25 years) didnt think to oil and maintain a bicycle chain. LOL

As above I wasn't actually making any such assumption. I was simply sharing good general advice on how to prolongue the life of a drivetrain.
You wouldn't believe the amount of gunked up "regularly *oiled*" drivetrains I've dealt with over the years from "Engineers" and "motor mechanics" bicycles. Unfortunately your credentials in the motor world really have very little bearing on whether you'd know how to clean and lube a bicycle chain at all. or whether you'd actually bother to do it regularly. Cool that you do.

A bunch of fivers? The chains are only £25 mate.
Hardly expensive and not something I see any reason to skimp on when I can use the one the manufacturer recomended.

Dude, you're going through chains every 500 miles.
for me that would be 8 chains so far this year. I pay no more than £10-£12 for my 11 speed chains. E-bike specific 11spd chains are generally more than £25 but for arguments sake let's call it £25. so at least double the cost, yeah? for zero improvement in durability/life (infact from your quoted mileage, it's massively lower).
over a year that's a fairly big bunch of fivers.

I commute 50 miles a week

I commute on mine too. Between 20 and 40 miles a day 4 days a week whatever the weather.

 

[davosaurusrex]

Still wittering on eh Gary? Surely you'll get bored of yourself at some point?

 

[davosaurusrex]

Was looking at the Praxis steel eRing but as its threaded and the chairing needs to mounted on the front of the spider on the Vitus/Shimano Steps to avoid a clash with the chainstay, as well as a crap chainline, presumably this means they aren't compatible without drilling out the chainring?

 

[thebarber]

Heya @Evolution Stu you wouldn't happen to remember the chain length needed when you changed your cassette to 11-42T (with 36T chainring)? I was just wondering if a standard box of 116 links is enough...

I've just put all new gear on mine
11-46
36 front
With 116 chain no worries

 

[Gary]

Surely you'll get bored of yourself at some point?

Nah... Still playing with myself as I read your comments. As always hun

 

[thebarber]

I've just put all new gear on mine
11-46
36 front
With 116 chain no worries

 

[davosaurusrex]

Nah... Still playing with myself as I read your comments. As always hun

Fool!

 

[davosaurusrex]

Anyhoo, on the threaded Praxis ring guess you could use the bolts on the inside of the spider, would look a bit odd though?

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

I've just put all new gear on mine
11-46
36 front
With 116 chain no worries

Different bikes tho. Yours must have a shorter CS length. Curious... what bike and how long?

Mine looks like that at 120 links (haven’t dropped the swing arm to check since I changed to a 11-42T... might be able to go shorter still).

 

[thebarber]

Different bikes tho. Yours must have a shorter CS length. Curious... what bike and how long?

Mine looks like that at 120 links (haven’t dropped the swing arm to check since I changed to a 11-42T... might be able to go shorter still).

Vitus e sommet

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Was looking at the Praxis steel eRing but as its threaded and the chairing needs to mounted on the front of the spider on the Vitus/Shimano Steps to avoid a clash with the chainstay, as well as a crap chainline, presumably this means they aren't compatible without drilling out the chainring?

Haven’t seen the config on a Vitus, so as per your description having the chainring installed on the outside of the spider, the chainring bolts therefore are installed (and tightened) from behind the spider?

If so, there’s no need to drill out the aluminium aftermarket chainring. It’ll already have larger holes for the necessary additional threaded sleeves to fit into. You’d still insert the bolts from behind the spider as before. I can’t imagine how you’d fit an Allen key in there unless there’s a recess of some sort between the spider and the motor.

You could be right, having the traditional slotted threaded sleeves on the outside might look funny. But check out if you can find a chainring bolt/nut pairing that has Allen key holes at both ends. I recall seeing those in a bike some time ago. Remember the length of the threaded sleeve can’t be longer than the thickness of your aftermarket aluminium chainring.

All the best.

 

[Gary]

Dude. You're replying to a thread in the Vitus forum.

Can see no reason the Praxis ring wouldn't fit an E Sommet. It's just a standard 104 spider (same as the Praxis ring is designed for) on the Shimano motor and each bolt/tab is accessible from behind on the E-sommet.

 

[cat1]

I have just changed to a 32t to try. Do I need to change the settings through the ST Unlocker app or will it be fine?

 

[Gary]

it'll be fine.

 

[AverageJoeMTB]

Just bringing this back up. I've just fitted the cheap alloy chainring a few others are running. A mate pointed me to a thread on the Levo owners page showing one that's failed. I'll be switching back to steel I think.

 

[R120]

I am running the new Funn direct mount for E7/8000 , also swapped out the OEM chain guide to the Funn one too. So far so good. Was running a Hope 36t but it never ran that smoothly, not entirely sure why as no obvious reason.

 

[Gary]

Just bringing this back up. I've just fitted the cheap alloy chainring a few others are running. A mate pointed me to a thread on the Levo owners page showing one that's failed. I'll be switching back to steel I think.

View attachment 30691 View attachment 30692

Failed?

or smashed the fuck into something by it's owner?

 

[Gary]

Burgtec are doing 32 and 34t 4bolt 104bc steel NW (eeb) chainrings now. meant to ask them the other day if there are any plans to do a run of 36T.
What's the name of the guy on here who works for them?

 

[R120]

Burgtec are doing 32 and 34t 4bolt 104bc steel NW (eeb) chainrings now. meant to ask them the other day if there are any plans to do a run of 36T.
What's the name of the guy on here who works for them?

Kangr

Though haven't seen him post recently

 

[AverageJoeMTB]

Failed?

or smashed the fuck into something by it's owner?

Failed, took chunks out of the bike too.

Might have been a bad one, but thought I'd post it. I'm running on ?

Quite a few ebikes are steel so maybe there was a small chance of failure and manufacturer's opted for steel.

I'm planning to swap it out as soon as I can. At least the alloy one wasn't expensive ?

 

[R120]

If you are going Alloy you need a decent one, cheap one is going to bite the dust quickly as you have found out - I did 500 plus miles on the Hope Alloy one with no issues in terms of unusual wear or going out of shape.

The Funn one I have just fitted is alloy too, in the blurb they say its some magic formula for EMTB's but we will see.

 

[thebarber]

Mate had a Renthal one snap at the bolt holes.
hearing some ppl change gear on any bike it's no wonder.
These bike's exaggerate forces a hell of a lot and usually thru normal mtb drive gear.