Rob Rides EMTB

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A persons feelings can be broken down in to 8 basic emotions: joy, trust, fear, surprise, sadness, anticipation, anger, and disgust. So naturally, when buying a new bike there’s a significant chance one might experience 3 or 4 of these basic emotions. But could it be possible that the new bike buying experience would lead one to experiencing the entire circumference of emotions in one go?



In the not too distant past this was often the case, especially when purchasing from one of the many direct to market manufacturers. Problems with assembly, couriers, customer services, build defects, the list goes on…



So is 2021 the year we can finally enjoy the direct sales purchase model and be left with only positive emotions?



Joy, Anticipation and Surprise!



In this video review I explain my first impressions of the new 2021 Vitus E-Sommet and draw a few comparisons with the old one. It’s only based on my initial experiences but will hopefully give you a good idea of...
Continue reading...


thanks to @BenroTV for the article
 

Endurip

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Nice review, and very professional introduction. There’s a lot that other emtb youtubers can learn from that.
 
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Winger

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Nice sensible review, just think Shimano still have a mountain to climb...pardon the pun up against Brose and Bosch, whilst I realise there’s a bit more to mountain bikes than just the motor, my Turbo Levo will walk away from my wife’s Cube Action on the level,be interesting to where the Shimano stands performance wise.
 
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BenroTV

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Nice sensible review, just think Shimano still have a mountain to climb...pardon the pun up against Brose and Bosch, whilst I realise there’s a bit more to mountain bikes than just the motor, my Turbo Levo will walk away from my wife’s Cube Action on the level,be interesting to where the Shimano stands performance wise.
Maybe you're right. I'm hoping to get my hands on a Bosch powered Focus in the near future. I'll have a back to back review in the coming weeks
 

Gary

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just think Shimano still have a mountain to climb...pardon the pun up against Brose and Bosch, whilst I realise there’s a bit more to mountain bikes than just the motor, my Turbo Levo will walk away from my wife’s Cube Action on the level,be interesting to where the Shimano stands performance wise.
Personally I'm really glad Shimano stuck with a similar approach to assistance delivery for the EP8. to me the shimano motors power delivery just feels far more natural than any Brose or Bosch motor I've ridden. And I hope it stays that way.
performance isn't all about high torque acceleration... But I'd rather be using skill and effort mountainbiking than riding a StarWars speeder bike. ;)
 

R120

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Is it as fun to ride as the older generation? I am guessing it’s more of a bruiser? The old one was always one of if not the easier long travel bikes to get the front end up on due to the weight and battery placement.

I made my own 2021, 630Wh, Zeb etc 😂

9504EF6C-522B-4521-9C47-2544241DCACC.jpeg
 

Gary

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Is it as fun to ride as the older generation?
Depends "how" you make your fun. ;)
A riding mate recieved his a few weeks ago. I've ridden it a few times now. and will no doubt jump on it for a spin it again at the weekend.

I don't like it. It's a pig to ride. Mainly down to the additional weight but partly that less optimum weight distribution.

Sizing is actually misleading too. Although reach is listed as 15mm longer His Medium 2021 actually feels shorter than my Small 2019
This is down to a few things though.
Firstly I run a 50mm stem and his has a 35 (I used to run a 35 and it was poppier/ridiculously easy to raise the front but I prefer weighting the front when descending and cornering with the 50mm)
Secondly a 29er (or indeed a mullet) *NEEDS* slightly more reach than a 27.5 for the same rider.
Thirdly. a retarded modern steep seat angle makes a short bike ridiculous to ride seated on the flat (and still pretty bad climbing TBH). and we don't all want or need a massive wheelbase bike
 
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BenroTV

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Depends "how" you make your fun. ;)
A riding mate recieved his a few weeks ago. I've ridden it a few times now. and will no doubt jump on it for a spin it again at the weekend.

I don't like it. It's a pig to ride. Mainly down to the additional weight and that less optimum weight distribution.

Sizing is actually misleading too. Although reach is listed as 15mm longer His Medium 2021 actually feels shorter than my Small 2019
this is down to a few things though.
firstly I run a 50mm stem and his has a 35 (I used to run a 35 and it was poppier/ridiculously easy to raise the front but I prefer weighting the front when descending with the 50mm)
Secondly a 29er (or indeed a mullet *NEEDS* more reach than a 27.5 for the same rider
Thirdly. a retarded modern steep seat angle makes a short bike ridiculous to ride seated on the flat (and still pretty bad climbing TBH).
I agree with your previous comment on the EP8. It's super smooth and feels so natural.
My large definitely feels shorter than the previous generation. This I think helps to negate the additional weight and higher battery placement. For me it was something to adjust to over the space of a few rides but now I don't want to go back. The overall package is just a better feeling bike than the original. A big factor for me is the way the frame stands taller in the initial throw of the shock. Makes for a more lively feel and a higher bottom bracket when climbing.

Despite all that, the old bike was a little ripper. Optimum weight in all the right places. I miss that.
 
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Gary

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The overall package is just a better feeling bike that the original.
I disagree massively. But that's absolutely fair enough... we probably have quite different riding styles and definitely have different preferred handling traits in a bike. From your critique of the initial suspension support you definitely set-up your suspension a little differently to me as well.

my mate's 2021 is over 6lb heavier than my 2019.
I Genuinely wouldn't want an Ebike that heavy at all.
and to me it's a real shame so many manufacturers are heading this way
 

BenroTV

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I disagree massively. But that's absolutely fair enough... we probably have quite different riding styles and definitely have different preferred handling traits in a bike. From your critique of the initial suspension support you definitely set-up your suspension a little differently to me as well.

my mate's 2021 is over 6lb heavier than my 2019.
I Genuinely wouldn't want an Ebike that heavy at all.
and to me it's a real shame so many manufacturers are heading this way
Each to their own I guess. I thought the weight increase was going to be a massive issue and initially yes it did feel more clumsy but once I adjusted to it I'm kinda fine with it now. Although a 500wh battery would be a better option for me.
 
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Gary

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Yeah. I know fine I could adjust to a 6lb weight increase if I had to. I just don't particularly want to.

The frame weight increase isn't just down to the extra Wh capacity of the battery but the fact it is mounted internally and the frame construction has to be beefed up to accomodate it. a 29" front wheel/tyre and Zeb also add significant weight to the bike.
Should you choose to fit one, the high/forwards waterbottle mount placement really won't help either.
 
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BenroTV

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Yeah. I know fine I could adjust to a 6lb weight increase if I had to. I just don't particularly want to.

The frame weight increase isn't just down to the extra Wh capacity of the battery but the fact it is mounted internally and the frame construction has to be beefed up to accomodate it. a 29" front wheel/tyre and Zeb also add significant weight to the bike.
Should you choose to fit one, the high/forwards waterbottle mount placement really won't help either.
All of which I'm well aware of but the battery is the only thing I'd be willing to change. It's all a bit of a backwards step isn't it
 
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Zimmerframe

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I'm obviously just dumb, but I've never fully understood the weight increase for internal batteries.

An external one has to totally support itself just from being connected in 2 places. It has to also be sufficiently protected to withstand impacts when the bike is crashed as it's completely exposed.

An internal one is protected 360 degrees by a nice aluminium or carbon surround and supported through it's entire length. Logically, it should be lighter.

It's not like a motor which is used as a stressed member. If it's designed to withstand frame flex, then surely it's "heavy" case should be carbon fibre to be both lighter and more rigid - it's not like they can say they have to make them in plastic to keep costs down, the profit on bike batteries must be extortionate.
 

Gary

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internal batteries also have to have a casing offering sufficient impact protection. 500wh of Li ion isn't a nice thing. and an internal battery as you've noticed isn't hugely different in weight from it's external equivalent.
Just as an example: the OG 504wh external shimano battery weighed 2.8kg whereas the newer 504wh internal battery weighs 3.15kg. the actual cells and electronics will be of similar weight so that extra weight is coming from the casing and it's mounting hardware.

also. Have you seen the wall thickness of most standard aluminium mtb downtubes? and do you think most would still be structurally sound if you simply cut a hole in them somewhere underneath to allow removal and fitting of a 3kg+ battery without somehow reenforcing the structure?
an Alu external battery downtube simply has to be hydroformed in an appropriate shape to accomodate the battery and it's mounts with only small holes for cabling.

Carbon is another matter entirely. But no I don't think it would be particularly cost effective or lighter to make EMTB battery cases from it.
 
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BenroTV

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internal batteries also have to have a casing offering sufficient impact protection. 500wh of Li ion isn't a nice thing. and an internal battery as you've noticed isn't hugely different in weight from it's external equivalent.
Just as an example: the OG 504wh external shimano battery weighed 2.8kg whereas the newer 504wh internal battery weighs 3.15kg. the actual cells and electronics will be of similar weight so that extra weight is coming from the casing and it's mounting hardware.

also. Have you seen the wall thickness of most standard aluminium mtb downtubes? and do you think most would still be structurally sound if you simply cut a hole in them somewhere underneath to allow removal and fitting of a 3kg+ battery without somehow reenforcing the structure?
an Alu external battery downtube simply has to be hydroformed in an appropriate shape to accomodate the battery and it's mounts with only small holes for cabling.

Carbon is another matter entirely. But no I don't think it would be particularly cost effective or lighter to make EMTB battery cases from it.
Basically we need all manufacturers to adopt the Lapierre GLP approach to emtb battery placement. Then the world would be a better place and we could all get on with our lives 🤣
 
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Gary

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I'm perfectly happy with my external batteries placement and genuinely think it looks better than that massively oversized downtube the 2021 has.

The world is still f***ed though ;)
 
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Zimmerframe

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internal batteries also have to have a casing offering sufficient impact protection. 500wh of Li ion isn't a nice thing. and an internal battery as you've noticed isn't hugely different in weight from it's external equivalent.
Just as an example: the OG 504wh external shimano battery weighed 2.8kg whereas the newer 504wh internal battery weighs 3.15kg. the actual cells and electronics will be of similar weight so that extra weight is coming from the casing and it's mounting hardware.

also. Have you seen the wall thickness of most standard aluminium mtb downtubes? and do you think most would still be structurally sound if you simply cut a hole in them somewhere underneath to allow removal and fitting of a 3kg+ battery without somehow reenforcing the structure?
an Alu external battery downtube simply has to be hydroformed in an appropriate shape to accomodate the battery and it's mounts with only small holes for cabling.

Carbon is another matter entirely. But no I don't think it would be particularly cost effective or lighter to make EMTB battery cases from it.
I suppose in my head I think of "internal" batteries as "fully integrated/internal" .. Sliding into a tube like a Levo for instance.

I can't remember the correct term now, but most I suppose are only semi integrated. As you say, a huge hole cut in the frame and then a portion of the battery is exposed/semi exposed/behind a paper thin plastic flap - mainly because everyone's still so far behind they're still copying the Original Levo/Kenevo design ;) :) - so you have the worst of both worlds - hence the extra weight and why a 700wh 180mm Kenevo weighs 2kg's less than most of the worlds newer 500-630wh 150/160mm offerings.

That last bit isn't exactly true if you take it based on battery weight as per WH IF you compare the Spesh internals (500wh 3.135, 700wh 3.82) to say a Shimano Internal (500wh 3.150, 630wh 3.7), but a shed load of weight was saved going from the gaping mouth frame design of the first gen Kenevo to the tight sphincter design of the Gen2.
 
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