Am I a fat guy?

That’s what Zimmerframe on the emtbforums forum asked me. Am I a fat guy? Why would he ask me that? I thought the answer was obvious!? But it turns out it isn’t. So many lightweight emtbs have been launched lately. Are they better than the full fat emtbs? What do I prefer? Am I a full fat or lightweight kind of rider?

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The 2022 Merida eOne-Sixty 975 is a proper full fat emtb

Skinny​

I’m really excited about these lightweight bikes. They seem to be going in two directions. The new bikes with the Fazua Ride 60 and TQ HPR50 motors prioritize a natural riding experience. The power is there, but it feels stingier, you have to work for it. It’s a different experience to the full power, full fat emtbs we’re used to.

Lightweight and stingy, the 2023 Pivot Shuttle SL

Lightweight and stingy, the 2023 Pivot Shuttle SL

…and stingy​

There are a few advantages to these stingy lightweight bikes, I think. The compact motor takes up very little space in the frame, so it’s easier getting the frame geometry and rear linkage right. It’s possible to build these bikes very similar to a non-assist bike. This can of course affect handling.

A smaller motor is more lightweight. The lower power means a smaller battery will do, saving more weight. And then there’s the low noise of these motors. They affect the riding experience. I didn’t really care about a bit of motor noise. But it’s almost liberating riding in near complete silence. I don’t feel like I’m standing out on the trails anymore.

The TQ HPR50 is lightweight and very compact.

The TQ HPR50 is lightweight and very compact.

So, I like these stingy lightweights. And so do most bike journalists. And the people making these bikes does of course love them. But we’ve all got one thing in common. We’ve ridden bikes for years, or even decades. We’ve ridden and loved the non-assist bikes, and most of us still do. So, the stingy lightweights are perhaps made for us. Coming from a non-assist bike, these feel powerful.

More generous​

But how many are there really of us? Is there a big market for these bikes. And coming to think of it, I’m not so sure I belong to this category anymore. I moved to emtbs and completely abandoned non-assist bikes because life happens, and I need a bit of motor assistance to keep going. I’m excited about the stingy lightweights, but there are times I need more.

2022 Forestal Cyon Halo, a great compromise between power and weight

2022 Forestal Cyon Halo, a great compromise between power and weight

The more generous lightweight emtbs could be my thing. I’ve ridden the Orbea Rise and Forestal Cyon, 19 kg lightweights with generous motors. The Orbea EP8-RS is a bigger and heavier motor. The Forestal EonDrive motor is the same weight as the Fazua. But it has a different shape, it sits visibly in the frame the same way the EP8-RS does. You sacrifice the stealth and almost complete silence with these two.

Old rider, not fat rider​

Nothing descends like a heavier full power emtb. It’s so easy getting used to the increased stability, it’s an intoxicating experience. But can it be too much of a good thing? Mountainbikers are getting older every day. At some point, people will become more risk adverse. Riding rock gardens at 50kph is an accident waiting to happen. A 140-150mm travel generous lightweight emtb usually is less capable going downhill. It doesn’t inspire me to go as hard. Instead, the lightweights make the flatter and slower riding more interesting. That’s probably good for life expectancy.

2022 Rotwild R.X375 Core

2022 Rotwild R.X375 Core

Blurry lines​

Not all mild emtbs are slow descenders though. I’ve only ridden the Kenevo SL of the ~170mm travel lightweights, and it’s a confidence inspiring bike. Also, not all lightweight bikes are actually lightweight. Take the Orbea Rise H30. Even though it’s about 21kg, you can argue it belongs to the lightweight category because of the detuned EP8 motor. I think it’s a really interesting bike regardless of categories. The 540Wh battery isn’t that small, and the motor is generous, it offers some of the full fat riding experience at a good price.

Specialized Kenevo SL. Who says a lightweight emtb can't be a burly bike?

2022 Specialized Kenevo SL. Who says a lightweight emtb can't be a burly bike?

Compare that to the previous full fat Specialized Levo, some models were about 21 kg with a 500 Wh battery. Still, no one claim the old Levo belongs to the lightweight category. And there are many other full fat emtbs at a similar weight, like the Mondraker Crafty or the new Orbea Wild.

Does it make sense buying a weaker lightweight bike if there are full fats weighing the same? Well, yeah. A lightweight full fat is expensive, the Orbea Rise H30 is much cheaper. If you go with a stingy lightweight, you get a quite different riding experience.

Who says a lightweight emtb can't be a burly bike?

Orbea Rise H30, the best bike that doesn't belong to a category?

Having said that, I think the bikes I call generous lightweights will blend with the full fat category. It will be harder and perhaps pointless to draw the line between those. The stingy lightweigts seem aimed at a slightly different customer base, I can imagine the lightweight category will be dominated by these bikes.

Does anyone want a lightweight?​

There are reasons for going lightweight, even if it doesn’t save that much weight. But do the customers agree? We did a survey on emtbforums and one on a Norwegian facebook group. What will people buy next, full fat or lightweight? Or both?

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By including the third option, it seems 70% of the emtbforums members will be buying a full fat, while 40% will go lightweight. Yeah, allowing people to vote “both” messed up the percentage a bit. 79% of the users on the Norwegian facebook group will be buying the full power bike while 24% goes lightweight.

ff-lightweight-survey02.JPG


It seems most people still want the heavier bikes. Not everyone cares about stealth, nimble or lightweight. I think a lot of people want an ebike for the power and range. Emtbs made more people buy full suspension trail bikes, not just the hard-core non-assist crowd. It makes no sense for manufacturers to give up on the full fat emtbs, and I’m sure they won’t.

You can't have enough bikes!?

You can't have enough bikes!?

To sum it up: n+1​

The way I see it, the lightweight emtbs are a great addition to the world of emtbs. Anyone with an above average interest in bikes know you can’t have too many bikes. I used to have just one road bike, a cheaper xc hardtail and a full suspension bike. It seems many of those who started riding with an emtb owns just one bike. And that makes sense, they are expensive. And so far, they’ve also been so similar you might not see the point of having two. But with the lightweight emtbs, that could be changing. I never needed two emtbs, not until now!
About author
knut7
Started mountainbiking in the 90s. Moved to emtbs in 2014 and have been reviewing them since 2016. Contact me here https://emtb.no/contact/

Comments

Good article. Thanks.
If I could do it again, I would.
“Stingy”. I like that term. I use to call my Rail a tank but then someone called it a Full Fat. I was slightly offended until I realized it was a “term of endearment”.

I stopped on a trail recently to speak to a friend. An older gentleman was with him. Both we riding analog FS. The older gentleman seem to scoff at my full fat.

He said “they haven’t made a eMTB for me yet”.
I asked “What are you looking for?”.
He went on to describe, unknowingly, the lightweight Fuel EXE. I suggested that he Fuel EXE is available now. Surprised he was, as he scrambled to search the Trek website on his phone.

I like the new lightweight eMTB’s. Someday I’ll have one but I’ll keep the full-fat-tank Rail as my main.
 
I always thought bodyweight/proportion to bike weight might be a differentiating factor - but it doesn't seem to be.

I absolutely love the idea of a lightweight .. but then every time I ride a FF, as much as I try to justify that it will be ok to go stingy, I know I like that FF assistance.

I'm just a Fat B4stard.
 
Now then, I’ve said it before on this forum and I’ll say it again, I’m a fat guy on a lightweight bike. I have a full fat too, but have ridden it once since having the lightweight, in nine months

Much prefer the lightweight. It’s a totally different experience. You feel alive on the trails. Every twist & turn & drop & berm is exciting. The full fat just cruises along like a clunky tank

There’s plenty of power in the lightweight motor. It shifts my 18 stone walrus blubber up climbs no problem, just slightly slower than a full fat. But the climbs are sociable, it’s when you chat about the trail you just risked life & limb on. Don’t need to be turbo’ing up the ascent like a bat out of hell
 
Trails! What trails you ride make all the difference. All my favorite trails seem to require some hike-a-bike to access. Carrying a heavier ebike uphill offsets the benefits of having more power/range. And The lighter bike typically descends better (given similar parts/geometry) on most conditions… poppier, more playful, better at low speeds, but yes a bit less planted.

The main downside of lightweight eBikes (I have the Trek Fuel EXe) is the range, especially for heavier riders. Easy fix is a second battery. This bike with two batteries will still be lighter, and have more range, than my old FF eBike. The idea of having a bike optimized for fun, which you can add weight (batteries or power) to for specific rides, seems like the future to me.
 
Much prefer the lightweight. It’s a totally different experience. You feel alive on the trails. Every twist & turn & drop & berm is exciting. The full fat just cruises along like a clunky tank
Having had both the FF and the SL emtbs, it all comes down to where your priorities lie. I came from a DH background and bought an emtb to get to the trail head to enjoy the ride DOWN the trail. The FF bike I had (Kenevo) was that clunky tank that Tubby describes, which made the most important part of riding (DH), noticeably less fun. For those who enjoy the climb up or speeding around on XC trails or riding for hours and hours, its understandable why they like the FFs. If I feel the need for a big day (3 hours in usually more than enough for me), I can always shuttle up or take a chairlift. SL for the win!
 
I always thought bodyweight/proportion to bike weight might be a differentiating factor - but it doesn't seem to be.

I absolutely love the idea of a lightweight .. but then every time I ride a FF, as much as I try to justify that it will be ok to go stingy, I know I like that FF assistance.

I'm just a Fat B4stard.
I think you're right, that rider size can be a factor. Battery consumption increases with increased rider weight. And a lightweight emtb might feel more underpowered for a big pilot. I don't think all big riders must ride a full fat, but they might be more inclined to chose one.
 
I was in between the Fuel EXe 9.8 XT and the Levo Pro
Due to the fact that a big, if not the biggest, Trek retailer in my region told me, that they would get absolutely zero 9.8 XTs in yellow in 2022 and 2023 in stock, I left and went to the Levo, though I really embraced the idea of a lightweight EMTB.

In the end, the EXe isn't that much lighter than the Levo Pro (measured my Levo at 21,3 kg with pedals vs. the EXe at 18,1 without - which isn't too much of a difference for me in EMTB terms).

Now I'm really happy with the full fat, especially at this time of the year, it really motivates me to ride even in bad weather to do some loops on my hometrails, ride in in Eco and Trail mostly but on the second to last or last climb of the day, I catch myself frequently putting it in Turbo for the last kilometer uphill when the motivation leaves my legs. This is just great and something I couldn't get on a lightweight bike cause I'm a heavy dude at 92kg so what I figured I prefer isn't a light bike but a strong motor.
 
I was in between the Fuel EXe 9.8 XT and the Levo Pro
Due to the fact that a big, if not the biggest, Trek retailer in my region told me, that they would get absolutely zero 9.8 XTs in yellow in 2022 and 2023 in stock, I left and went to the Levo, though I really embraced the idea of a lightweight EMTB.

In the end, the EXe isn't that much lighter than the Levo Pro (measured my Levo at 21,3 kg with pedals vs. the EXe at 18,1 without - which isn't too much of a difference for me in EMTB terms).

Now I'm really happy with the full fat, especially at this time of the year, it really motivates me to ride even in bad weather to do some loops on my hometrails, ride in in Eco and Trail mostly but on the second to last or last climb of the day, I catch myself frequently putting it in Turbo for the last kilometer uphill when the motivation leaves my legs. This is just great and something I couldn't get on a lightweight bike cause I'm a heavy dude at 92kg so what I figured I prefer isn't a light bike but a strong motor.

If my full fat was 21kg then I’d feel different about it, but the Haibike weighs in at a mighty 26kg so is one of the heaviest on the market
 
Having had both the FF and the SL emtbs, it all comes down to where your priorities lie. I came from a DH background and bought an emtb to get to the trail head to enjoy the ride DOWN the trail. The FF bike I had (Kenevo) was that clunky tank that Tubby describes, which made the most important part of riding (DH), noticeably less fun. For those who enjoy the climb up or speeding around on XC trails or riding for hours and hours, its understandable why they like the FFs. If I feel the need for a big day (3 hours in usually more than enough for me), I can always shuttle up or take a chairlift. SL for the win!

3 hrs is enough for me too, and in the longer days in the summer we often go for a morning ride then home for a recharge then back out on the evening too. On the rare occasions we’re going out for longer, we just slap a range extender on
 
Interesting comment in the piece about people having years of experience liking the lighter models. I myself am quite the opposite. I started riding in 2021, no previous experience since bmx in the 80s. My one and only bike is a FF 25kg trail bike, which I have to say has been perfect for me straight off the batt. Nicknamed the tank because it will go anywhere but is quite heavy. What gets me thinking now is after 2 years of riding, I now have a good level of fitness, so how good would I be on a lower power bike. My favourite rides are the long distance type (100k and over) so battery management is key for me, im rarely over 50% assist so do I actually need 80nm to play with ?. Nice to have on the odd occasions it gets really steep, but could it be managed on a 60nm lightweight. Not having the experience on any other mtbs I have no idea, so I think for me I’d have to test ride, but I don’t think I’d replace my FF,we are a bonded pair after 5000k, however, get a second bike, yes, and have the best of both worlds when required would be the ideal if the wallet allows. One question I have is, Say im in the 3rd power mode out of 5 on my FF 80nm going up hill, would a 60nm lightweight be doing it in turbo and coping ok ?
 
For me the ideal would be for the weight of the full power bikes to come down. I used to race downhill and when I started DH bikes were easily 45lbs, I even at one point had a Brooklyn TMX knocking on 50lbs.

If they could get the full fat bikes down to 20KG or there abouts I don't think I would ever think about the weight again.

I have a none ebike that I use for certain rides or for when I fancy it, so don't really need the half way house option.

For the full power bikes to come down there really needs to be a big shift in battery tech I guess.......plus most manufacturers still aren't on top of motor reliability!
 
I have a quiver of lightweight bikes that I’ve kept along my mtb career, from full suspension carbon 26er weighing 12 kg to full rigid 29 at 13kg that I can ride if its to be an “workout” ride (wich I would hate). Oh also I have a non functional shimano E8000 that I can carry on a backpack to make that workout ride even more “rewarding” 😆
 
For me, it's a full fat eMTB and a couple regular analog bikes (SC Hightower, Borealis fatbike, and Pivot gravel bike). The lightweight eMTB just didn't work for me. Wasn't as fun as the full fat, couldn't hang with my buddies on full fat eMTBs, and overkill for easy days with my friends on regular bikes. I swapped my Orbea Rise for a Turbo Levo.
 
For me, it's a full fat eMTB and a couple regular analog bikes (SC Hightower, Borealis fatbike, and Pivot gravel bike). The lightweight eMTB just didn't work for me. Wasn't as fun as the full fat, couldn't hang with my buddies on full fat eMTBs, and overkill for easy days with my friends on regular bikes. I swapped my Orbea Rise for a Turbo Levo.
Yeah, I planned to include a comment about non-assist bikes, but I forgot. Are you willing to pay for a lightweight that is stingy on the power? Or would you just buy a much lighter non-assist bike at half the price? You're giving up on a bit of assistance, but you get an even lighter and more playful ride.
 
Yeah, I planned to include a comment about non-assist bikes, but I forgot. Are you willing to pay for a lightweight that is stingy on the power? Or would you just buy a much lighter non-assist bike at half the price? You're giving up on a bit of assistance, but you get an even lighter and more playful ride.
I am not sure about your rough measurements regarding a "much lighter non-asist bike at half the price" and " giving up on a bit of assistance, but you get an even lighter and more playful ride" as it depends greatly on which end of the spectrum you are measuring from. My Kenevo SL weighs in at 44 lbs and can easily haul my a$$ up any trail I want, several times in a 3+ hours/2000m while my similar performing 35 lb analog bike will, while great on the DH, kills me on the way up after one lap up. I don't think it is the 9 lbs difference in bike weight that is the main factor here as their is a lot more assistance provided on an emtb than I thought!
Also, some analog bikes can cost similar to some emtb bikes!
 
I am not sure about your rough measurements
Yeah, just trying to raise the question. How much power is people willing to give up before they decide to save some money and get a lighter non-assist bike. I would have put it differently if I had remembered to include it in the article :)
 
Yeah, just trying to raise the question. How much power is people willing to give up before they decide to save some money and get a lighter non-assist bike. I would have put it differently if I had remembered to include it in the article :)
It has been my observation that a significant number of new riders have come to the sport of mountain biking because of the ease of access to trails and the time they can spend on a bike ie: the amount of available power and battery/ride time. This is evidenced by the number of new, older riders and older riders coming back to the sport because of the support they can get from an emtb. While I started out mountain biking in my mid 40s, I also have a preference for the DH part and mostly hate the climb up (thus the purchase of an emtb to reduce the frustration and pain of trying to keep up to my wife!). The bikes I ride are all DH oriented with enough support to get me to the trailhead while the majority of riders polled prefer a wider scope in their needs (commute, XC, all mountain) which is why FF emtbs will always be more popular. I doubt money will be the limiting factor for the demographics found on this forum. Neither will ultimate DH performance at the expense of ride time and climbing ability. So many people, so many different trails!
 
I am not sure about your rough measurements regarding a "much lighter non-asist bike at half the price" and " giving up on a bit of assistance, but you get an even lighter and more playful ride" as it depends greatly on which end of the spectrum you are measuring from. My Kenevo SL weighs in at 44 lbs and can easily haul my a$$ up any trail I want, several times in a 3+ hours/2000m while my similar performing 35 lb analog bike will, while great on the DH, kills me on the way up after one lap up. I don't think it is the 9 lbs difference in bike weight that is the main factor here as their is a lot more assistance provided on an emtb than I thought!
Also, some analog bikes can cost similar to some emtb bikes!
Its not easy to find a nice non assisted bike really light and capable at half the price of an ebike, or at least it wasn't six monthes ago. I was planning to buy one at that time but a top bike from canyon would cost near $7.000 in the end, my choice was a cube stereo 160 that costed $4.000.
 
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